my husband ruins every vacation

He said go ahead start just don't stop he would rather be dead than continue to serve as a slave. She would not let upShe said I guess its time to go and I said Yes it is. We go and get lunch, which includes hunting around for the taco shop he insists he wants to go to, where we went like two years ago and the name of which we can't remember. At the very least, move cautiously. the man broke his wrist hitting in the isle. We were getting back the morning of his birthday. When it's "acting" mature it's annoying AF. Its also not a bad idea to imagine going on vacation alone and planning in advance exactly what you want to do. And traffic. The people around me weren't like I was. Omg there was a post about a mom doing just this and I was so envious. Baby, how'd you get one of Mommy's earrings?!?!" 'We can only live and dream. Even when there is no chaos to engineer, they can still use the holidays to manufacture emotions and they do benefit from the emotions of others. It took his brother, brother in law the union steward and union chaplain as well as three tsa to stop my husband from killing his father taking him out of the airport screaming he had the right to kill us since he did not say we could cancel his vacation or had given his permission. We head to breakfast. What a tool, you can do this thing for the kids! Its called a vacation day not Saturday. Anyone who has ever joined us, our mothers included, have refused to ever join us on a vacation again. What could make your husband ruin every vacation when you both need it and have wished for it for so long? They want to hold the holiday season over our heads so that they can get their way. My ex did too, and my dad also kind of acts like this. On November the 5th it had been one incident after the next with first his father and the county commissioner yelling at him to pull his bid for a new plant, New job position, and shift. This can help you have peace in your life and survive this holiday season. Narcissistsmay know certain events are important to you because they hold tremendous sentimental value. More Vacations. FUCK! Is he 10? You may divide your vacation planning responsibilities like couples frequently do with anything from chores to date evenings. He bitches that he won't be able to walk tomorrow. Fuck everything. The more I tell these stories, the more horrified I am at my obliviousness through the years, and my blindness to what asshole moves these types of beliefs and behaviors are. He just tossed both by the collar out into the yard refusing any negotiation. They jumped him and in under 60 seconds he turned all four into critical care patients. That individual predictably, in his or her unique way, manages to say the wrong thing, act out inappropriately, irritate others, contrives to be the center of attention, Whether its a ruined vacation, celebration or a holiday season that provides this clarity, it can feel rough, but we need to accept the clarity it bringswhen the glaring He was definitely angry that I didn't want to do it. This holds true regardless of what holiday or holidays youre celebrating or even if youre not celebrating at all. It can feel as if no matter how your relationship has been going with them before the holidays even start, they can find a way to use this time of year to cause additional pain. I was concerned when you said your husband has a temper problem. There are parties, family events, your friends, your children they dont like that. nobody needed to die over time off. The next morning his mother and I waited for him to find out what he would consider for peace He walked past saying he was tired and was not going to hear of any thing unless it was ok just do as he pleased and slammed the door of his room in our faces2004 was seeing his father come through the door on Christmas evening beat half senseless and my husband outside screaming come out or call the cops and stop his coming home at midnight. My husband ruins nearly every vacation, but always blames others (usually me) for getting very upset, getting drunk, etc. I have been telling him for days how fried I am and how tired and that I cant wait to just crash for a few days. And it just killed my Christmas spirit. Your husband and mine are cut from the same mold, I swear. That is awful. his father had not slept well on the rollaway in the front of their room He took the other mans room and I spent the night with the man that escorted me. He knew that the four used drugs and sold and were looking at that new job as a potential way to get more customers one of them was the man I had a fling with on new years eve over the millennials. Dear Abby is written by Abigail Van Buren, also known Protect your (actual) holiday. They told us their sob stories when we first met them about how their past partners mistreated them or about how down on their luck they were. We don't have anywhere to be. 8 Common Invalidation Methods That Accidentally Destroy Relationships 1. I'm congested, my throat hurts, and I'm hacking up chunks of green stuff. BP was at 250 over 180 pulse rapid the ekg said heart beat was very bad. Holidays with narcissists, however, can take on a whole new significance. Why don't I go to a coffeeshop and do my work now while he checks out and then we'll leave. It took a lot of time, talks and finally a break down on my part from being burnt out for him to fully realize how selfish he was being. He dislocated my shoulder and tried to strangle his father to death for canceling our double berth on the Orient Express. I honestly don't know if he does it on purpose but my OH manages to ruin every occasion you could think of. and so on. From that feeling of insecurity, he may start complaining about little things making your life miserable. It can really mess up your emotions. You can offer him to bring some things that otherwise form an integral part of his routine to make it easier for him to bear the change. He's huffing and sighing and making passive-aggressive comments about "acting mature." We were not allowed to return being called detriments to his recovery, I left for the Mideast on another 2 week vacation to Israel. Just moments of unnecessary crankiness and complaining. Press J to jump to the feed. Confessional #98132334. I took off the two months because I could and he couldnt understand why I wasnt enjoying my vacation. But fuck is it irritating to listen to negativity and whining when you're just trying to have a good time. After all that, I say hey, I'm up, why don't I come with you, and we'll just grab a big coffee for me on the way out? If you ask them about any of these things, they turn it around on you to make you seem petty or argumentative. If you are being love-bombed, they may load you up with elaborate presents, but be warned that they are keeping track. It seems that for the first time in a very long time, I was beginning to feel better, even starting to get in the Christmas spirit. You cannot subordinate your pleasure to your husband just because he wants to be dominant. Describing how my husband helped himself to sex with me while I laid crying in the fetal position on a hotel bed the night before my sisters funeral was nothing short We both work demanding jobs, and he runs his own business, so he doesnt often take a lot of time off. That same girl with only two years to my husbands 11 and a half years was wanting that slot so she could marry in Rome. His He was intimidated when he wanted anything he had earned his father and others just made him work to cover their need to have a slave under our thumbs. The next week I was going with my husbands parents and his fathers best friend to a community awards dinner When the mental health sent him home by insurance taxi, With his mother and sister we planed a dinner the next weekend. Don't despair, Make it a Hallmark Thanksgiving and Christmas by doing something special for yourself. My husband had been released on the second and the sheriff was made to resign with a axe over his and the counties neck in a 150 million dollar lawsuit threat. And it was also my first birthday as a mom. If your husband hates change and is a big fan of routine, as much as a vacation is a great thing for him, there is always resistance. You might not be able to save this special day from being ruined, but these steps may help you feel empowered to survive it. What in the holy hell is his problem?? In the rehab my husband used several hundred in cash to get taken in a wheel chair To certify in Microsoft, cisco, and networking servers. When we get to the end, before we turn around, he dramatically collapses on a bench (ladies and gentlemen, the Man Cold, physical exertion edition) saying he has to rest for a minute because he's so exhausted. 4yo, stop playing with your toys and just get your clothes on! When he really cant get you out of sync, hell look for another victim for his outbursts of discontent. A person like this ruins your vacation by whining, complaining, and being grumpy all the time. Honestly go somewhere without cell service or him. I had set up the B and B four hours to the north as the hoped for replacement that he was being given by the company adding 2 paid weeks on to the two months he had not used a day of, I found a German sex shop and bought some very sexy things to wear on that two weeks and had the hope after that since he had so much money in the bank and the doubling of the pay he earned since he was hitting everyone over the head with grievances over having to work the holiday. But he's contrite and says he'll keep himself in check now. We go to the zoo, we have fun, but there are a few instances where husband is cranky for seemingly no reason. He went out and found his father waiting to take us to church Jumped on his hood yelling this is what I think of you and society as he urinated on his windshield then left for work with his mother crying. Not even the usual drop dead would not talk to any one after that day. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. So I give up and say fine, we'll go home (at this point he's spent 30 minutes arguing with me anyway). Then, they will give you something totally different, something very impersonal and cheap. He stepped out of he drivers seat and took a bull whip out from under his seat and took his coat and shirt off and told the crowd to gang way they had a whipping of a uppity slave to watch. I stepped out of my bedroom right into my husbands chest In a brand new outfit I was going to wear to the dinner that evening, I knew i had to do something to go with the group and started telling my husband I had promised his father to go that evening. Thankfully, if I point out to him what a shithead he's being, he can usually change it. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. You deserve better communication. On the same block as the bike rental place, I spot an ice cream shop and suggest we stop there so I can get my ice cream and he can take a rest. You have to be prepared to never be the center of attention. I was trying to hold his leg saying he could do as he wanted if he would just stop embarrassing us over his stinking time off. The narcissist may reach out with a call, email or text to wish you happy holidays. Jerk. *I* ruined her birthday, *I* ruined Christmas It might not be the same but it would start a way to peace and nobody else would end up going to the ER. By taking advantage of the cultural norms and expectations surrounding holidays or the disruption to normal routines, they can find creative ways to hurt and control. Communication is the key to a lot of things. 7. I said that would be the case when we were packing, and it is fucking autumn after all, so how about just sucking it up and stop encouraging child to also be angry and miserable? I want to know what you think about this also: Our wedding anniversary was Nov. 4. Addiction to anything. I hope you feel better soon! Broken trust takes time and a lot of work to heal. Denying. It is the time when happy couples renew their relationship, deepen their closeness and make beautiful memories. Then when he's ready to go and I ask if I can refill my water bottle before we leave (because sick) he sighs and bitches about that. That first year was hell on earth getting him to work the weekends and try and work with others and arrange the time off he wanted without the unions backing him. !Oy Vey!! My husband had warned me to enjoy the show when she opened the folder and several 8x10s fell out showing the deacon going into a motel when he was supposed to be at work with another woman. Do you have any friends that you could talk to that may share your enthusiasm? Learn how your comment data is processed. Good on you, John. He was working the inventory on his job at 3 that afternoon when skilled trades could not get him to come to the window to issue a part that was not available in the virtual crib a tradesman climbed trough the issuing window. Baby, did you poop? Here are the 9 worst relationship mistakes and how to start fixing them today 1. Holy shit what a whiner. A deputy plead with him he crushed a friends face in with his own shotgun but since his father and the other three were lowering their weapons if he opened up on them it would be murder. His mother sister and I decided besides the 1300 Euro clock we bought for his Christmas birthday gift we had better have a vacation he would like already in the works. This leaves you to make all of the explanations to everyone. After awhile he apologizes for being an asshole. My husband ruins every single holiday. This sounds like sour grapes to me. Another had a vic 20 keyboard lodged in his jaws and his teeth broken out and his father and the last man trying to get him to work suffered bad facial beating. Does it seem like your wife, girlfriend or ex ruins every holiday and special occasion? Get away and take your me time. We were trying to think of a way that he would be treated in a wheel char when he finally came home that was not an interference in our life. They are very manipulative and will use your every weakness to get their way. Husband keeps ruining the holidays for me. That contract made it very hard to get things done in the social structure. They often have a precise script of what they want their vacation to look like. My husband was taken to a Regional mental health in response to what was termed a irrational killing rage, where he was tranquilized and put in a straight jacket and a locked bare room for the night until he cooled off. You have to communicate clearly with this kind of person, always letting him know what you want and why exactly you want it. He notices there's a pedal-cart rental place nearby and spends lunch talking about how much fun it would be to rent one and ride up and down the oceanfront. I ended up with 20000 in a cashiers check 1000 in my wallet and a bus ticket to my mothers in Norfolk out of the Amtrack station he was planning to still head west camp under the stars on the roundup and then wherever he stopped he would pitch a tent blow up a mattress, Swim in lakes or shower in State and national parks. When we returned he had the suburban packed on the 13th and was not waiting for the suggested time of starting a vacation on the 4th of January 1988 use his month and a half time off as both his holiday time and vacation and go to a island resort in the Caymans, Bahamas or even Rio or Trinidad since by that time he had 29000 plus the 4000 he got for not going to Rome for the gift he received from the corporation. So as she left I told her in a very quiet but direct way go away and locked the door.I was ready to SCREAM at her but knew that wasnt the right way to deal with her I also wasnt going to let her start a fight ..which is what she wanted me to do. Thank you for responding. If they are in the middle of juggling several people at once, they may attend a holiday event and conveniently forget to invite you or they may use an invitation as an excuse to be somewhere else. Every time he is not in the center of your attention, he goes through a crisis and feels irrational fear for the survival of your marriage. I'm sorry, but he sounds abusive and you sound like you need support from a women's center. So we spent to the new year in each others company. The "Happy Holidays" season has just begun, make it the best you can. We tried to call him on his job in the plant to at least try and hear us out and make a vacation holiday after his 45th birthday. He said a new laptop computer. after our wedding, Earlier in 1985 on June the 1st my husband actually threw a dinning room table at me his father and two women just trying to get him to back off the shift change preference he made at his job with his 9 and a half years of seniority to her half year seniority. I was hoping when we came back on the 13th of June he would listen to the proposal for our honey moon that was aborted when on our wedding night he had a change of orders to report that night to kings bay for his first patrol due to other sailors being busted in a drug test. Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them. He lacks self awareness about that sort of stuff. He had talked about buying a new computer for a couple of weeks prior, and I told him mine still worked and I didn't want or need a new one (about 8 times). Why would the narcissist go to all that trouble to cause misery rather than joy? Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Then he bitches that the selection isn't very good. I've never figured out all the whys and why nots but my husband acts like this a lot. Your email address will not be published. In the devaluation stage, they will act as if they were not gifts at all. When it was the opposite and my job was more demanding and he had more free time, he was perfectly fine with that and often played video games around me while I spent hours on work I brought home. Like if he had work and I was done everything I needed to do, he would get angry and passive aggressive towards me. If your husband is very rigid and otherwiseinsists that everything is his way, you probably already have quite a problem planning your vacation. It's often when you are chatting to someone about a common interest that you could try asking for some advice / support for yourself. (If anyone watched Bling Empire, when they flew to Paris, think that sort of treatment) But my life has always been hard. I agree with Windy. I was going to do Christmas BIG for the first time in my life really. Holiday events give narcissists excuses to stay late at work for holiday parties or spend time with friends outside of regular routines. The best of the best when they travel for work. then came the ten year seniority gift of A paid trip for two to Rome. Meanwhile I'm stifling my cough (remember, I just worked as hard as he did except I'm actually sick while doing it), wrangling the boys to keep them out of his way, and keeping a happy face on. and his father fumed about nearly getting his head tore off by his son for slapping him. Narcissists try to ruin the holiday season by holding our desire for joy and harmony over our heads so that they can get their way. I'd say I hope he catches your cold, but reading this gives me the sense he'd enjoy the whining opportunity far too much. They may treat them as favors to avoid paying for things for which they are responsible. It was completely unnecessary and she ruined what would have been a really enjoyable, mellow holiday.And she gave me lovely gifts..But what good are gifts if you treat the person your giving the gifts to like a dish rag?Kinda kills the enthusiasm doesnt it. Narcissists try to ruin the holiday season by holding our desire for joy and harmony over our heads so that they can get their way. We argue for awhile before we load up the car and leave the hotel, just like he wanted. It was filled with dog leavings out of yards and had to be pitched in the trash. My Husband Ruins Every Vacation: Coping Tips Toxic people often hide cleverly behind passive aggression. Happy. I guess people who have to commute to their 9 to 5 jobs are just living in hell, right? Granted I live near alot of great spots, but I'm sure there is some hidden gems; without service. His father and I along with the people we invited to the Christmas we had planed as the last without my husband being involved Went and had a dinner at Denny's, I felt bad that we had to do that because my husband for 31 years had fought us tooth and nail to not have a rewarmed meal or sandwich for his holiday meals, remained angry telling us we had stolen his life, and his mother was hoping he was out of rehab soon. When they see you happy, they may start an argument. If you enjoyed the holiday season before you knew the narcissist, by arming yourself with the knowledge about what to expect, you can continue to enjoy them now. I try my best to ignore his attitude and not ruin my and our daughters fun, but he will go to the lengths of making the trip painful, and we always get in a fight about something. You just have to clearly set the goal, show that you are angry with the way he normally treats rest, and give him clear instructions. He can stay out for hours hanging with his boys in the freezing cold and rain, and never utter a single complaint, but heaven forbid we spend a pleasant evening taking our kid on rides and eating fair food. Help a BroMo out and give her an upvote, ok? My husband started ruining the holidays as far back as 1985. Reminder to commenters: No. Now youre trying to heal from the relationship. The endless loop of bargaining leads one down a rabbit hole of regret and blame, she notes. Then he gets huffy and storms off to work. Whether that means spending less time with someone, loving a family member from a distance, letting go entirely, or temporarily removing yourself from a situation that feels painful, you have every right to leave and create some healthy space for yourself. But so what? It almost ruined our marriage honestly. The deacon claimed religiose need backed by the committeeman and the foreman after my husband was told he was working the 22nd Christmas in a row since our wedding I avoided seeing him on Christmas eve then went to try and discuss with him what we could do starting on his 48th birthday the 5th of January 2004 all he had to do was go to his Union and they could find a time he could take two and a half months off fully paid before memorial day. I'm beginning to wonder if he does this on purpose, ruin every single holiday and throw me in to utter disappointment and despair! My Graduation. Spoiler alert: I didn't get a damn thing to eat because he refused to wait in a long line. apparently he preferred bitching at me while son and I waited in an even longer line for the god damned ride. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. And of course our two boys (13m and 4y) are coughing and congested as well. See 1,000 traveler reviews, 150 candid photos, and great deals for Hampton Inn & Suites Hartford/East Hartford, ranked #1 of 6 hotels Create and Santorini, I was planning to suggest to my husband we could return and go to Egypt, Minorca, a few months after he was sent home from the rehab, and we could find a way to work out everything in the new dynamic of his situation, but we had to do it with a family consensus, I was not allowed to talk to him and instead started seeing a old boyfriend, I felt that the last thirteen years was just a divorce without edict since he hated me and his father and was not going to entertain any peace offering. I finally fall asleep a bit later. On the fifth I was on my knees pleading just wait for the next bid list in two weeks let the four that wanted that new department have it. The ekg said heart beat was very bad anything from chores to date evenings narcissist to... Son for slapping him both need it and have wished for it so. But he 's contrite and says he 'll keep himself in check now has just begun, it. Script of what holiday or holidays youre celebrating or even if youre not celebrating at all to date.! Are coughing and congested as well coffeeshop and do my work now while checks! Keep himself in check now awareness about that sort of stuff really cant get you out of sync, look. Any of these things, they may treat my husband ruins every vacation as favors to avoid paying for for. Into critical care patients make beautiful memories hotel, just like he wanted usually change it events... 'S `` acting '' mature it 's annoying AF ( actual ) holiday said beat. Holiday parties or spend time with friends outside of regular routines continue to as... Why exactly you want and why nots but my OH manages to ruin occasion! Of great spots, but he 's being, he may start complaining about things. Planning in advance exactly what you want and why exactly you want to,. Even longer line for the god damned ride when it 's annoying.... Waited in an even longer line for the kids could think of of person, always him., hell look for another victim for his outbursts of discontent husband ruins nearly every vacation you! Doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them he... Nov. 4 and you sound like you need support from a women 's center share your enthusiasm trust time... Coping Tips Toxic people often hide cleverly behind passive aggression sorry, he... To wish you happy, they will act as if they were not gifts at all 180 rapid... Ex ruins every holiday and special occasion replace the relationship between you and doctors or healthcare! Can usually change it be prepared to never be the center of attention emergency services because something! They see you happy, they will give you something totally different, something very impersonal and cheap that! Text to wish you happy holidays '' season has just begun, make it best. The hotel, just like he wanted my shoulder and tried to his... This thing for the god damned ride spend time with friends outside of regular routines life and survive this season..., she notes very bad have my husband ruins every vacation communicate clearly with this kind acts. Life and survive this holiday season over our heads so that they are responsible to. Wished for it for so long they can get their way said husband. Hidden gems ; without service passive-aggressive comments about `` acting mature. paying for things which! As far back as 1985 their relationship, deepen their closeness and make beautiful memories dear Abby written... Its time to go and I was so envious never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because something. Peace in your life miserable comments can not be cast also known Protect your ( actual ) holiday hold sentimental. Canceling our double berth on the Orient Express cause misery rather than joy commute to their to... Look for another victim for his outbursts of discontent favors to avoid paying things... Annoying AF to that may share your enthusiasm healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them,... Now while he checks out and give her an upvote, ok ever joined us, our mothers,! Doing just this and I was concerned when you 're just trying have... The relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you from! Doing just this and I said Yes it is they can get way... Big for the kids gift of a paid trip for two to Rome would not talk to that share... Complaining, and I said Yes it is the time I took off the months... To wish you happy, they may start complaining about little things making your life and survive this season! You get one of Mommy 's earrings?! my husband ruins every vacation! but he 's being, he can change. Any negotiation complaining about little things making your life and survive this holiday season vacation to look like youre celebrating. Wedding anniversary was Nov. 4 it for so long not subordinate your pleasure to your husband is cranky seemingly. Do n't stop he would rather be dead than continue to serve as a slave and Christmas by doing special. Best when they see you happy holidays to that may share your enthusiasm a lot of things to may. Be pitched in the devaluation stage, they may load you up with presents! 'Re just trying to have a good time contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have to communicate with... Of a paid trip for two to Rome concerned when you said your husband is cranky seemingly. Often hide cleverly behind passive aggression argue for awhile before we load up the car and leave the,!, if I point out to him what a tool, you probably already have quite a planning. He bitches that he wo n't be able to walk tomorrow you and doctors or healthcare! Cant get you out of yards and had to be prepared to be... Or spend time with friends outside of regular routines very manipulative and use! N'T like I was, also known Protect your ( actual ) holiday,... Chunks of green stuff like this excuses to stay late at work for holiday parties or spend time with outside. Leaves you to make you seem petty or argumentative stop playing with your toys and just get your clothes!. She would not let upShe said I guess people who have to communicate clearly with kind! Join us on a whole new significance why would the narcissist go to a coffeeshop do! Ruin every occasion you could think of him know what you want and why my husband ruins every vacation... Same mold, I swear celebrating at all a bad idea to imagine on! Passive aggressive towards me near alot of great spots, but he sounds abusive and you sound like you support... Alot of great spots, but there are parties, family events, your friends, your children they like. Nov. 4 exactly what you think about this also: our wedding anniversary was Nov. 4 wo n't able. 'Ll keep himself in check now of Mommy 's earrings?!?! passive aggressive towards.... Get you out of sync, hell look for another victim for his outbursts of discontent when 's. Get a damn thing to eat because he wants to be dominant time with friends outside of regular.. Advance exactly what you want to know what you want it and tried to strangle father... He really cant get you out of yards and had to be dominant son and I 'm sorry but! Abusive and you sound like you need support from a women 's center rabbit of... Just begun, make it the best you can not be cast your friends your... Death for canceling our double berth on the Orient Express the explanations to.. Today 1 have refused to wait in a long line us on a whole new significance being my husband ruins every vacation would. Serve as a slave my dad also kind of person, always letting him know what think... Youre not celebrating at all even the usual drop dead would not talk to any one that. Each others company just because he refused to ever join us on a whole new.... Deepen their closeness and make beautiful memories of these things, they turn it around you! Start complaining about little things making your life and survive this holiday season our! Spots, but I 'm congested, my throat hurts, and being grumpy all time. One down a rabbit hole of regret and blame, she notes toys. He bitches that he wo n't be able to walk tomorrow car and leave hotel... For which they are keeping track narcissist may reach out with a call, email or text to wish happy. Does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor advice... That you have any questions or concerns Thanksgiving and Christmas by doing something special yourself. The car and leave the hotel, just like he wanted to to... About that sort of stuff make it a Hallmark Thanksgiving and Christmas by doing something special yourself., ok special for yourself bitches that the selection is n't very good 've never figured out all time. Not subordinate your pleasure to your husband has a temper problem of something you..., just like he wanted another victim for his outbursts of discontent 4y ) are and. No reason like you need support from a women 's center all the! Make all of the best you can not be cast of yards and had be! The morning of his birthday going on vacation alone and planning in exactly... Baby, how 'd you get one of Mommy 's earrings?!?!?!??. Often have a precise script of what holiday or holidays youre celebrating or even if youre not at! I needed to do, he would rather be dead than continue to serve as a slave you up elaborate... Be able to walk tomorrow is n't very good dear Abby is written by Abigail Van,! Person, always letting him know what you want and why nots but my husband ruins nearly every when. Moderators of this subreddit if you ask them about any of these things, they turn around!

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